Angie Just going from personal experience the UKA, as far as I'm aware, are the only body currently offering a qualification in Salsa in the UK. I have also been informed that they only recognise 'cuban' style salsa - not NY (their version of mambo - from what I've heard/seen - is Ballroom style - which is very different to what is being danced worldwide in clubs, congresses etc). The other thing about UKA qualification is that it doesn't cover technique... more whether or not you know the difference between a trading places and a figure of eight..... which is fine up to a point, but many of the styles now being danced across the globe are only possible with the correct technique's (spinning, cross body lead, copa's etc etc). Having attending many of the UKA salsa competitions in the past - I have come to the conclusion that little credibility is now given to this 'body' by many of the uk's and international 'well known' and respected teachers - and I agree with Graeme that it seems to be more of a money making scheme on UKA's part rather than a qualification worth spending money on. It's a shame that there is no recorgnised qualification however as there are many 'cowboys' now teaching salsa - in some cases extremely badly.. and if there was a way to regulate this it would certainly help improve things across the UK... however as salsa is constantly changing - and has many different styles across the globe it would be very difficult to write an appropriate syllabus to allow for this. It's a challenge though I would be more than happy to support should someone decide to look into it.

• UKA or not????   anonymous chatter   Tuesday 11th February 2003, 6:30 pm
  • UKA or not????   Dave G   Wednesday 12th February 2003, 5:11 pm
  • UKA or not????   mathieg2 (Graeme Mathieson)   Wednesday 12th February 2003, 1:14 pm
    • UKA or not????   Jazzman (O Akman)   Wednesday 12th February 2003, 6:07 pm
      • UKA or not????   Dave G   Wednesday 12th February 2003, 6:15 pm
        • UKA or not????   mathieg2 (Graeme Mathieson)   Tuesday 18th February 2003, 6:01 pm
          • UKA or not????   Dave G   Thursday 20th February 2003, 4:31 pm
            • Confusion about styles   mathieg2 (Graeme Mathieson)   Thursday 20th February 2003, 6:04 pm
              • Confusion about styles   Dave G   Friday 21st February 2003, 11:54 am
          • UKA or not????   Jazzman (O Akman)   Wednesday 19th February 2003, 9:13 am
  • UKA or not????   ian (Ian Finch)   Wednesday 12th February 2003, 10:23 am
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This isn't a reply to the message, but a quick hint about the way the "anonymous" posting works. The idea is that "anonymous" messages are for asking Suzy embarrassing Salsa questions where you don't want people to know who you are. When she replies to them, then the anonymous message will appear together with her reply. For standard discussions like this, you can just get a username (by clicking on "Register" and post a normal message (or click on "Reply"). Otherwise, with anonymous messages, there's no guarantee how long it will take before Suzy or I see your message and reply to it to make it appear. Cheers,                    Ian

BEGIN QUOTE  Angie I have also been informed that they only recognise 'cuban' style salsa - not NY (their version of mambo - from what I've heard/seen - is Ballroom style - which is very different to what is being danced worldwide in clubs,  END QUOTE  Not strictly true, the UKA recognise NY on1, LA style, cuban, columbian, etc, etc - I'm not sure about the on2 style at the moment. Also, technique forms a big part of the exam marking scheme. In my first exam, I was pulled up for 'not dancing into the floor' or words to that effect - other examinees were pulled up for various other faults, and the UKA teacher who submitted all the students for the exams was given feedback on the overall performance of the class, pulling up common faults, and highlighting areas where the class did well, so that he could improve the quality of his teaching. It is useful to get a stranger's opinion of your dancing, as your own teacher will find it hard to be totally impartial. On the money making side of things, the amateur exams are designed mainly to make money for the UKA, but the teachers exams are designed primarily as a differentiator between a good teacher, and a fly-by-night cowboy. Passing a teachers exam is not easy - you really need to know what you are talking about. AFAIK the salsa style you choose is up to you - its the quality of your teaching that matters, rather than the style of salsa you choose to teach. Like any other organisation, if the UKA wants to survive, it needs to change with the times - and I am sure the people at the top of the organisation recognise this - otherwise, god help them! Cheers Graeme

BEGIN QUOTE  Just going from personal experience the UKA, as far as I'm aware, are the only body currently offering a qualification in Salsa in the UK.  END QUOTE  I understand that the ISTD offers qualifications in both Salsa and Mambo, as part of their "alternative rhythms" syllabus.  BEGIN QUOTE  Having attending many of the UKA salsa competitions in the past - I have come to the conclusion that little credibility is now given to this 'body' by many of the uk's and international 'well known' and respected teachers  END QUOTE  The setting of the last UKA Salsa competition at a ballroom dancing competition seems to suggest that they wish to align themselves with the ballroom world, rather than the club world. You also see very few of the best-known UK teachers aligning themselves with the UKA. Similarly, I have seen a couple of bad Salsa dancers who are qualified UKA Salsa teachers!! As such, it looks to me like the UKA are moving away from the club scene and the established teachers there, towards the ballroom scene (which would seem to be their more natural home and far more lucrative). dG

BEGIN QUOTE  Not strictly true, the UKA recognise NY on1, LA style, cuban, columbian, etc, etc - I'm not sure about the on2 style at the moment.  END QUOTE  What is the NY on 1 Style? What is LA Style?

BEGIN QUOTE  "Not strictly true, the UKA recognise NY on1, LA style, cuban, columbian, etc, etc - I'm not sure about the on2 style at the moment."  What is the NY on 1 Style? What is LA Style?  END QUOTE  More importantly, what is "columbian" style Salsa? Is that from Columbia in South Carolina, Maryland or Missouri? This must be some very specific form of US Salsa that only the UKA know about!! dG

BEGIN QUOTE  More importantly, what is "columbian" style Salsa? Is that from Columbia in South Carolina, Maryland or Missouri? This must be some very specific form of US Salsa that only the UKA know about!! dG  END QUOTE  If either of you are being serious, which I doubt, then here's my reply. I view columbian salsa as a cut-down, speeded up version of cuban salsa - I've not met any columbians so I cannot confirm this. I'm also a terrible speller sometimes - I mean colombia! Some dancers in New York dance on1. They are in the minority, yes, but the ones that do dance on1 will stick to crossbody/slot dancing with lots of shines. LA salsa is the same as new york salsa (on1) except it's a lot more punchy. Expect even more shines, and a few lifts, dips, tricks, and running up walls in some cases! Francisco Vasquez is the best example of a LA style dancer. Graeme

BEGIN QUOTE  If either of you are being serious, which I doubt, then here's my reply.  END QUOTE  Since I did not put a smiley face at the end of my post I can not see how you can tell one way or another.  BEGIN QUOTE  I view columbian salsa as a cut-down, speeded up version of cuban salsa - I've not met any columbians so I cannot confirm this. I'm also a terrible speller sometimes - I mean colombia!  END QUOTE  I view???? Man! The question was 'What is?' not 'Speculate as to how you think the colombian dance salsa'  BEGIN QUOTE  Some dancers in New York dance on1. They are in the minority, yes, but the ones that do dance on1 will stick to crossbody/slot dancing with lots of shines.  END QUOTE  Wrong again my man. Most dancers in New York as any where else in the world dance on 1(3,5,7 or whatever). It is the On 2 fraternity that is a minority. ANd they do not necessarily stick to the 'crossbody/slot dancing' either. A significant amount do the so called 'Cuban Style'. But hey do not just take my word for it.  BEGIN QUOTE  LA salsa is the same as new york salsa (on1) except it's a lot more punchy. Expect even more shines, and a few lifts, dips, tricks, and running up walls in some cases! Francisco Vasquez is the best example of a LA style dancer.  END QUOTE  In view of my previous answers you might want to think this one over. I'm out!

BEGIN QUOTE  If either of you are being serious, which I doubt, then here's my reply.  END QUOTE  I was being serious, in that I had a serious point to make, although I was making my point (or clearly failing to make it) in a non-serious way. My point was that the country is Colombia and not Columbia. To get such a significant thing wrong about the name of a style (which would be seen as a sign of disrespect by many), doesn't give much faith in your authority on the subject. That said, your reply has just opened up a whole mess of things which I can't help but reply to.  BEGIN QUOTE  I view columbian salsa as a cut-down, speeded up version of cuban salsa - I've not met any columbians so I cannot confirm this.  END QUOTE  Again, this doesn't sound like you're speaking from a position of authority. You think Colombian Salsa is like this, but you "cannot confirm this"? What do you have to do to pass the UKA's Colombian Salsa exam? Just walk in and look confused?  BEGIN QUOTE  Some dancers in New York dance on1. They are in the minority, yes, but the ones that do dance on1 will stick to crossbody/slot dancing with lots of shines.  END QUOTE  This is so wrong, it's difficult to know what to take issue with first. On1 dancers are not in the minority in New York, they are the majority. Anyone from New York will tell you this! Even www.salsanewyork.com, one of the main on2 guides on the web says that on2 dancers are in the minority. Those people who do dance on1 in New York do not usually dance anything like you describe. They dance mainly Cuban style Salsa in the standard way (going round, not in a slot, no shines). I don't know where you get your information from about New York, I certainly hope it's not the standard line from the UKA, because it is just so wrong.  BEGIN QUOTE  LA salsa is the same as new york salsa (on1) except it's a lot more punchy. Expect even more shines, and a few lifts, dips, tricks, and running up walls in some cases! Francisco Vasquez is the best example of a LA style dancer.  END QUOTE  Again, you're a bit wide of the mark (but closer to the truth than with your New York comments). The "even more shines" bit is definitely contrary to my experience. Some New York dancers will spend the majority of the dance performing shines, but shines are still relatively new to LA style. They really only came into LA style when LA got lots of exposure to New York style. I'm very curious about where you are getting all this information from. Is it your own opinion or is it a standard UKA position. Because if this is an official UKA stance, it worries me (well, I'm not staying awake at nights because of it, but you know what I mean). dG

BEGIN QUOTE  Again, this doesn't sound like you're speaking from a position of authority. You think Colombian Salsa is like this, but you "cannot confirm this"? What do you have to do to pass the UKA's Colombian Salsa exam? Just walk in and look confused?  END QUOTE  It appears that my comments have been misinterpreted. I was trying to say that the UKA does not break salsa into individual styles, rather that it does not matter what style you do, as long as you do it well! We could get into a long argument about what makes a good dance - but I really cannot be bothered.  BEGIN QUOTE  etc, etc  END QUOTE  My information is not coming from the UKA, but rather from my limited experience on the salsa scene. I'm sorry if it offends you that I get things wrong from time to time - No one ever taught me how to spell Colombia - and I've not been to salsa clubs in cuba, colombia, new york and los angeles to compare the different styles. Not having danced new york, I cannot comment on the relative volumes of on1 and on2 dancers. I just assumed that as most of the uk bulletin boards refer to new york style salsa in the same breath as 'on2' that the 'on1' dancers must be in the minority. The first style I experienced was a derivative of colombian salsa. But the teacher's knowledge was a little limited - and I didn't really progress. That is the extent of my knowledge on colombian salsa. I now mainly dance cross body lead / slot salsa. Initially, I was told that this is called New York salsa, but as the teachers started learning new moves, they moved on to LA style salsa. And to be quite honest, I could not really tell the difference. All I can really say is that the LA moves were a lot punchier, and we started doing a lot more shines. I can say with authority that the LA style I am referring to was created by the vasquez brothers (http://www.rumberos.com) To be honest with you, each town/city in the UK has it's own distinct style - or more than one in some cases. The differences can be subtle - but each town/city has it's own flavour. In addition to various salsa weekends, I've danced in Glasgow, Edinburgh, London, Bristol, Reading, Dublin and even Aberdeen! and I have to say that the dance style in each city is unique and that's before you start differentiating between on1, on2, cuban, etc, etc. In summary, I don't care what you want to call each individual style - I just want to dance! I tend to adapt my style to whoever I am dancing with, to the music that is playing, and to the amount of space available on the dance floor. Regards, Graeme

BEGIN QUOTE  It appears that my comments have been misinterpreted.  END QUOTE  Often happens in chat rooms :-/  BEGIN QUOTE  I was trying to say that the UKA does not break salsa into individual styles, rather that it does not matter what style you do, as long as you do it well! We could get into a long argument about what makes a good dance  END QUOTE  Or indeed other arguments such as: can one person decide that someone is dancing Salsa well, regardless of style? Or: is there a definition of Salsa which encompasses all styles of Salsa, but which rules out everything else (like Jive or Cha-Cha danced to Salsa)?  BEGIN QUOTE  My information is not coming from the UKA, but rather from my limited experience on the salsa scene. I'm sorry if it offends you that I get things wrong from time to time - No one ever taught me how to spell Colombia - and I've not been to salsa clubs in cuba, colombia, new york and los angeles to compare the different styles.  END QUOTE  I'm not offended. More amused, really. You post a message which sounds very authoritative about different styles of Salsa, but then you follow up with messages where you say that you haven't seen most of the things you talk about. You don't need to visit these places to see the styles. You can visit plenty of Colombian clubs in London, for example. There are many Cubans around the UK if you want to see their style. There are frequent visits by dancers from New York and LA to the UK.  BEGIN QUOTE  Not having danced new york, I cannot comment on the relative volumes of on1 and on2 dancers. I just assumed that as most of the uk bulletin boards refer to new york style salsa in the same breath as 'on2' that the 'on1' dancers must be in the minority.  END QUOTE  The reason most people talk about New York style and on2 in the same breath, is precisely because it is a minority dance. On1, the more common dance, isn't talked about specially in New York because the people who dance on1 in New York dance pretty much the same as on1 dancers in other places.  BEGIN QUOTE  Initially, I was told that this is called New York salsa, but as the teachers started learning new moves, they moved on to LA style salsa.  END QUOTE  Sounds to me like your teachers were trying to blind you with science, or use the latest buzzwords to impress you. In fact, most teachers I am aware of, were first impressed by LA style (with its wow! zow! yowie! factor) and then moved on to New York on2, since it's a better style of Salsa for those who really want to dance to the music.  BEGIN QUOTE  And to be quite honest, I could not really tell the difference. All I can really say is that the LA moves were a lot punchier, and we started doing a lot more shines.  END QUOTE  I'd agree with you on the "punchier". I think that sums up LA style. It's a real "look at me" style. dG