BEGIN QUOTE  Yes I agree New York City probably was responsible for taking it to a wider audience but you could argue that Miami was also responsible for taking it to a wider audience with Fania Records.    END QUOTE  What exactly are you saying here?

Subject: What is on2
From: salsasauce (Sandro)
Date: 27th Jun 2005, 9:48 am
Replying to: A message by Jazzman (O Akman) posted on 25th Jun 2005, 1:20 pm

BEGIN QUOTE  What exactly are you saying here?  END QUOTE  What exactly are you asking?

Subject: What is on2
From: Dave G
Date: 28th Jun 2005, 11:37 am
Replying to: A message by salsasauce (Sandro) posted on 24th Jun 2005, 1:58 pm

BEGIN QUOTE  Yes I agree New York City probably was responsible for taking it to a wider audience but you could argue that Miami was also responsible for taking it to a wider audience with Fania Records.  END QUOTE  Huh? What does Miami have to do with it? Fania was a New York record label. Please expand on what you mean here.  BEGIN QUOTE  I think you are referring to dances where i was referring to music and Salsa music is indeed fused with many styles and culture. As far as the dance is concerned i also believe that there is very much fusion between other styles, for example a lot of moves are borrowed (we'll use the word borrowed here i think) from other dance styles so this is very much fusion.  END QUOTE  I was talking about both the music and the dance (they are intertwined). I agree that there is fusion within both Salsa music and dance. What I disagree with is the original view expressed that there is a single style of Salsa which fuses all these influences and is somehow "true" Salsa. This is clearly wrong, because if you play a Salsa track, you can pretty clearly tell whether it's Cuban, Colombian, New York or whatever. Similarly, you can see the difference between people dancing in all those styles.  BEGIN QUOTE  Of course we must move with the times and i really don't want to open a debate about reggaeton, not today anyway .. it was disappointing because i believe this style of music doesn't paint the right picture of Cuba for me,  END QUOTE  Yes, but it's not up to you, is it? It's for the people of Cuba to decide what music they listen to. I started writing a complicated thing about pictures and who was viewing them, but it got too messy, so I've given up. I'll just say that I get really annoyed when people visit Cuba and complain about the Reggaeton, or are disappointed that the streets aren't full of people dancing Salsa everywhere. These are real people trying to get on with very difficult lives and aren't just there for the benefit of the tourists.  BEGIN QUOTE  Firstly I'm not arguing over anything and basically New York Salsa better known as Mambo is simply benefiting from the rise of Salsa.  END QUOTE  You can't say that you're not arguing and then state your argument in the same sentence! I agree that New York Salsa is benefitting from the general popularity of Salsa, but I don't agree that it is better known as Mambo. The New York dancers call it Salsa, the New York musicians call it Salsa, the New York clubs call themselves Salsa clubs, the lessons are advertised as Salsa lessons. And you're also making a distinction which isn't so much there. In New York, people dance on1 and on2 (sometimes at the same club) and they all call it Salsa.  BEGIN QUOTE  If what you say is true why isn't the majority dancing NY Salsa or Mambo or On2 or other name is goes by?  END QUOTE  Well, not everyone can be the best Sorry, but I couldn't resist that. I honestly don't know why that is, but I think that some of it comes back to this hard distinction you are making between on2 and on1. I think that in the clubs, people were dancing all sorts of different styles (on1, on2, on3, whatever). People were doing their own thing, remembering the way they used to dance "back home" (Cuba, Puerto Rico, wherever) copying other people. Then, when the less able dancers wanted to learn to dance like this, the teachers came up with their own teaching styles. Eddie Torres taught on2 in his way, other teachers taught on1 or different on2 styles. So, I believe that it was when the teachers started trying to structure their teaching that the distinctions started to come in. Once you start getting a syllabus, you need rules about what beat you break on, what you call your moves, etc.  BEGIN QUOTE  ........ I don't think History is a minor side issue, without History we wouldn't know who we are ....... Now I think you are confusing yourself a little, just because Salsa was popularised in NY doesn't mean Mambo is Salsa or vice versa, furthermore it was the music that was popularised as Salsa which again has/had a fusion of many styles so i can't think why you would think that Mambo dancing is Salsa dancing or vice versa, Just accept that its Mambo and promote it for what it is.  END QUOTE  History is a whole other can of worms you're opening here. Most people think that history is factual, but actually it is mainly opinion (or, the more cynical would say, propaganda). Sure there, are facts scattered around it (like dates that kings were crowned) but most of it is the opinion of the people who wrote the history. That's what it's like with Salsa. There are plenty of definite facts (like when the first Cha Cha Cha was published and what it was called) but also loads of opinions. And (like with history) there are also plenty of commonly held beliefs which are actually wrong. So history is definitely important, but only when you get it right. The whole Salsa/Mambo thing is an excellent example. Somehow, in popular opinion, the origins of Mambo and Salsa have got contorted. I don't want to get into a whole history lesson here, so I'll just give the highlights. First off, Mambo originated in Cuba in the 30's. There's some debate about who actually wrote the first Mambo, but everyone agrees that it happened in Cuba. Then it spread out from Cuba, mainly through Perez Prado (who I think ended up being based in Mexico) and through the New York clubs (via the extensive *ahem* "business" links between certain "families" in New York and Havana and the frequent trips between the two cities). After the revolution in Cuba, New York became a home for many of the Mambo musicians from Cuba, where they continued to record their music. Jumping forward a few years, there's a new generation of Latino-Americans in the US, who have parents born outside the US but who were themselves born in the US. They see Mambo as something their parents are into. Worried about falling revenue, a rebranding exercise happens and "Salsa" is invented to appeal to this new generation. The music is essentially a development of the earlier Cuban Mambo music, but with the addition of other influences like the African American music that was around too. Now, popular opinion is that Salsa is from Cuba and Mambo is from New York, when the actual facts are the other way round.  BEGIN QUOTE  It's common knowledge that On2, NY dancers and promoters are a little touchy about this topic and can be a little anal and easily wound up, why is that I wonder. Let me just add that i'm not suggesting that you are one of these.  END QUOTE  It's not touchy or anal, just being correct. The truth of the matter is that most New York dancers are far more knowledgeable about the history and roots of Salsa (both music and dance) than non-NY style dancers. When they hear incorrect opinions, they feel obliged to spread their knowledge! The reality of the situation is that NY Salsa is as much Salsa as any of the other forms trying to call themselves Salsa (in fact, I believe it has more claim to the title than any other form). If you want to go down the road of calling NY Salsa "Mambo" (despite the fact that Mambo is actually from Cuba), then this should be applied across the board and Cuban Salsa should be called "Casino", Colombian Salsa should be called "Cumbia" and so on. dG

Subject: What is on2
From: anonymous
Date: 22nd Apr 2006, 9:02 am
Replying to: A message by Dave G posted on 22nd Jun 2005, 2:21 pm

BEGIN QUOTE  You've got things the wrong way round here. New York is where Salsa is from and all these other things which call themselves Salsa are the ones jumping on the bandwagon. You are, of course, totally correct that the name was changed from Mambo to Salsa for marketing reasons, but that was 30 years ago and that's when the term Salsa was invented. Since that time when New York invented Salsa, it is the other forms of dance which have appropriated the name (like Son and Cumbia). If any form should have the word Salsa in its name, then it is the New York form and not the other forms!  f the Salsa Scene. So stop calling it New Except it's not Mambo - it's Salsa. The other forms should start using their proper names instead. But it's not opinion that you've got wrong here, it's facts. dG  END QUOTE  Wow. you're way off base. You obviously have no clue to the origins of music or dance, let alone the origin of the term salsa. marketing reasons??? 30 years ago???. People have to stop getting their educations from drunks in bars. Pick up a history book. MK

Subject: What is on2
From: salsahoy2000@yahoo.com (terence levine)
Date: 22nd Apr 2006, 1:05 pm
Replying to: A message by anonymous posted on 22nd Apr 2006, 9:02 am

Whom ever said " salsa " predates the seventies is correct with one proviso --- the term was used in a more musical than dance sense-- and i am not going to go into the history of who said what- when-- there are several sources that lay claim to the terminology -- as a dance form-- the reason it changed from mambo to salsa was the influence of n,y, jazz musicians ( p.r.-- cubans-- afro amer. etc. ) started emphasising the down beat ( 1 & 3 ) of the bar where as Mambo was breaking on 2 ( still is )and even went to 4 / 4 timing ---- The roots are all afro / american and the styles of interpretation depended ( still does ) on your cultural background -- there is no right or wrong-- just a matter of choice -- and --as you may or may not know-- Cumbia is bordering on Colombian folk dancing and they dance it as such-- they ( the colombians ) get very offended if you atribute it with another designation-- have been around this for many generations thru all the changes-- and who ever said the magic word " Marketing "-- hit the nail firmly on the head ---Latinos think all this fuss about their culture from non latinos is absurd .And --- Remember what Puente said when asked what he thought about Salsa-- his reply-- " Thats something I put on my food " !!!

Subject: What is on2
From: salsahoy2000@yahoo.com (terence levine)
Date: 22nd Apr 2006, 1:11 pm
Replying to: A message by anonymous posted on 22nd Apr 2006, 9:02 am

BEGIN QUOTE  Just want to add one quick thing-- when I refered to marketing--that was meant to apply to all of the re- naming of the 2 major styles--cuban and p.r.  END QUOTE

Subject: What is on2
From: Dave G
Date: 24th Apr 2006, 10:51 am
Replying to: A message by anonymous posted on 22nd Apr 2006, 9:02 am

BEGIN QUOTE  Wow. you're way off base. You obviously have no clue to the origins of music or dance, let alone the origin of the term salsa. marketing reasons??? 30 years ago???. People have to stop getting their educations from drunks in bars. Pick up a history book.  END QUOTE  You'll find the history books support what I'm saying. Obviously the roots of the music and dance go back more than 30 years, but the term Salsa was coined in New York in the 70's (maybe its earliest use goes back to the mid-60's) to market what was still effectively Mambo to a new generation. If you are truly interested (and not just trolling) then check out a book called Salsiology by Vernon Boggs. It's one of those history books you are so keen on. dG

Subject: What is on2
From: sweavo (Steve Carter)
Date: 24th Apr 2006, 2:46 pm
Replying to: A message by anonymous posted on 22nd Apr 2006, 9:02 am

BEGIN QUOTE  Wow. you're way off base. You obviously have no clue to the origins of music or dance, let alone the origin of the term salsa. marketing reasons??? 30 years ago???. People have to stop getting their educations from drunks in bars. Pick up a history book.  END QUOTE  Now follow that up with something positive. Can you recommend a specific history book? Do you want to commit to say something about the "origins of music or dance"? If you can't say something positive it looks the same as if you really don't know what you're talking about.

«PREV | 1 | 2 | 3 | NEXT»