the confusion is simply its name, it shouldn't have Salsa in it as its not really Salsa is it? its Mambo .... I am not criticising the dance and not comparing which is better, each to there own is what I say, but what I disagree with is calling it something its not, I mean its like calling Merengue, Dominican Republic Style Salsa.   My guess from changing its name from simply Mambo to New York Salsa is for marketing reasons, isn't everything? as Salsa is/was the fastest growing partner dance in the world, Mambo simply jumped on the bandwagon by calling it New York Salsa, and so the confusion started, this is what I believe and Eddie Torres I suppose is the culprit. I was at a salsa club last night and was speaking with a beginner who asked me what he had just been taught as he has been doing New York Salsa for 3 months and basically struggled with the basic steps, which goes to show how confusing this is for the new members of the Salsa Scene. So stop calling it New York Salsa, On2 Salsa, Eddie Torres Salsa or any other stupid names you can up with and simply call it what it is...... Mambo ...... Maybe I'm wrong but an opinion is like an ass hole, everyone has one.  BEGIN QUOTE  ... but don't practise THAT if you want to dance on2 the way it's danced in the clubs! That's called Razzmatazz timing, and is pretty rare. The regular "on2" you see in the UK is Eddie Torres (or Palladium IIRC) style, which is hard to explain, but fortunately I don't have to http://www.salsanewyork.com/ourdancemusic.htm#DEFINITION The timing of steps on1 and on2 is the same: 1,2,3; 5,6,7. It's where the steps go that is different (women's mambo) On1: Back Forward Together; Forward Backward Together; On2: Forward Forward Back; Back Back Forward For men's timing reverse the directions. As to left or right foot, it's the same both styles. The reason it's called on2 is 'cos you BREAK (= change direction) on 2 and 6, rather than 1 and 5.  END QUOTE

Subject: What is on2
From: Dave G
Date: 22nd Jun 2005, 2:21 pm
Replying to: A message by Sandro posted on 22nd Jun 2005, 10:50 am

BEGIN QUOTE  the confusion is simply its name, it shouldn't have Salsa in it as its not really Salsa is it? its Mambo .... I am not criticising the dance and not comparing which is better, each to there own is what I say, but what I disagree with is calling it something its not, I mean its like calling Merengue, Dominican Republic Style Salsa. My guess from changing its name from simply Mambo to New York Salsa is for marketing reasons, isn't everything? as Salsa is/was the fastest growing partner dance in the world, Mambo simply jumped on the bandwagon by calling it New York Salsa, and so the confusion started, this is what I believe and Eddie Torres I suppose is the culprit.  END QUOTE  You've got things the wrong way round here. New York is where Salsa is from and all these other things which call themselves Salsa are the ones jumping on the bandwagon. You are, of course, totally correct that the name was changed from Mambo to Salsa for marketing reasons, but that was 30 years ago and that's when the term Salsa was invented. Since that time when New York invented Salsa, it is the other forms of dance which have appropriated the name (like Son and Cumbia). If any form should have the word Salsa in its name, then it is the New York form and not the other forms!  BEGIN QUOTE  I was at a salsa club last night and was speaking with a beginner who asked me what he had just been taught as he has been doing New York Salsa for 3 months and basically struggled with the basic steps, which goes to show how confusing this is for the new members of the Salsa Scene. So stop calling it New York Salsa, On2 Salsa, Eddie Torres Salsa or any other stupid names you can up with and simply call it what it is...... Mambo ......  END QUOTE  Except it's not Mambo - it's Salsa. The other forms should start using their proper names instead.  BEGIN QUOTE  Maybe I'm wrong but an opinion is like an ass hole, everyone has one.  END QUOTE  But it's not opinion that you've got wrong here, it's facts. dG

Subject: What is on2
From: salsasauce (Sandro)
Date: 22nd Jun 2005, 4:58 pm
Replying to: A message by Dave G posted on 22nd Jun 2005, 2:21 pm

BEGIN QUOTE  You've got things the wrong way round here. New York is where Salsa is from and all these other things which call themselves Salsa are the ones jumping on the bandwagon. You are, of course, totally correct that the name was changed from Mambo to Salsa for marketing reasons, but that was 30 years ago and that's when the term Salsa was invented. Since that time when New York invented Salsa, it is the other forms of dance which have appropriated the name (like Son and Cumbia). If any form should have the word Salsa in its name, then it is the New York form and not the other forms!  END QUOTE  I don't think you should be writing that with such certainty as its well known that where the term Salsa came from is a little unclear and up for debate. I read an article from Latin music historian that showed that the Mexicans were using the word Salsa to describe the music before it hit NY and the likes of Celia Cruz, Ray Barretto and Johnny Pacheco. I disagree that the word Salsa belongs to Mambo although i agree that Salsa is a fusion of many folkloric music styles. As far as the dance is concerned is down to the knowledge of the teacher I believe, because for example Cumbia as you mentioned is still very much danced in Colombia as is the Pachanga for example. And I have also just returned from Cuba where the people there are very knowledgeable about their own folkloric dances, as you would expect, even though i got the impression they all preferred to listen and dance to Reggaeton which was a shame. So basically its the lack of knowledge by the teachers that really create the confusion, if they don't know how can you expect the rest to know.        BEGIN QUOTE   f the Salsa Scene. So stop calling it New Except it's not Mambo - it's Salsa. The other forms should start using their proper names instead.  END QUOTE  I disagree, NY Style is Mambo....fact! ... But I suppose we could accept the argument that Mambo music could come under the Salsa umbrella since Salsa music is a fusion of different folklore music styles.  BEGIN QUOTE  But it's not opinion that you've got wrong here, it's facts.  END QUOTE  Many facts are opinions which are cohesive.  BEGIN QUOTE  dG  END QUOTE

Subject: What is on2
From: Dave G
Date: 24th Jun 2005, 11:21 am
Replying to: A message by salsasauce (Sandro) posted on 22nd Jun 2005, 4:58 pm

BEGIN QUOTE  I don't think you should be writing that with such certainty as its well known that where the term Salsa came from is a little unclear and up for debate. I read an article from Latin music historian that showed that the Mexicans were using the word Salsa to describe the music before it hit NY and the likes of Celia Cruz, Ray Barretto and Johnny Pacheco.  END QUOTE  Where the term Salsa came from is indeed unclear and up for debate. What is not up for debate though (and can be stated with certainty) is that it was the New York record labels which popularised and marketed the term Salsa. That's why I say the term Salsa is a New York one - it's New York which took it to a worldwide audience.  BEGIN QUOTE  I disagree that the word Salsa belongs to Mambo although i agree that Salsa is a fusion of many folkloric music styles. As far as the dance is concerned is down to the knowledge of the teacher I believe, because for example Cumbia as you mentioned is still very much danced in Colombia as is the Pachanga for example. And I have also just returned from Cuba where the people there are very knowledgeable about their own folkloric dances, as you would expect, even though i got the impression they all preferred to listen and dance to Reggaeton which was a shame.  END QUOTE  I disagree that Salsa is a fusion of styles - it's more like an umbrella term for a variety of different styles. There isn't one Salsa style which fuses together a load of other roots, there are a variety of different dances (like Cumbia) which are collectively referred to as Salsa. As for Reggaeton, it is not a shame that people in Cuba prefer to listen and dance to it. Times and music change, and that's where we've got up to with Latin music now.  BEGIN QUOTE  I disagree, NY Style is Mambo....fact! ... But I suppose we could accept the argument that Mambo music could come under the Salsa umbrella since Salsa music is a fusion of different folklore music styles.  END QUOTE  Whatever the minor points are that you are arguing over, my basic premise remains. The original poster claimed that NY style Salsa is only calling itself Salsa to jump on the Salsa bandwagon. The fact is that NY style was the first to popularise the term Salsa for this style of music and dancing and the other forms (like Cuban, Colombian, etc.) are the ones which have actually jumped on the Salsa bandwagon. Now, you can debate minor side issues about who was the first person to actually say the word Salsa in connection with this music, but the core of what I'm saying is accurate and the original poster did have things the wrong way round. dG

Subject: What is on2
From: salsasauce (Sandro)
Date: 24th Jun 2005, 1:58 pm
Replying to: A message by Dave G posted on 24th Jun 2005, 11:21 am

BEGIN QUOTE  Where the term Salsa came from is indeed unclear and up for debate. What is not up for debate though (and can be stated with certainty) is that it was the New York record labels which popularised and marketed the term Salsa. That's why I say the term Salsa is a New York one - it's New York which took it to a worldwide audience.  END QUOTE  Yes I agree New York City probably was responsible for taking it to a wider audience but you could argue that Miami was also responsible for taking it to a wider audience with Fania Records.    BEGIN QUOTE  I disagree that Salsa is a fusion of styles - it's more like an umbrella term for a variety of different styles. There isn't one Salsa style which fuses together a load of other roots, there are a variety of different dances (like Cumbia) which are collectively referred to as Salsa.  END QUOTE  I think you are referring to dances where i was referring to music and Salsa music is indeed fused with many styles and culture. As far as the dance is concerned i also believe that there is very much fusion between other styles, for example a lot of moves are borrowed (we'll use the word borrowed here i think) from other dance styles so this is very much fusion.  BEGIN QUOTE  As for Reggaeton, it is not a shame that people in Cuba prefer to listen and dance to it. Times and music change, and that's where we've got up to with Latin music now.  END QUOTE  Of course we must move with the times and i really don't want to open a debate about reggaeton, not today anyway .. it was disappointing because i believe this style of music doesn't paint the right picture of Cuba for me, most of the songs are very aggressive and gangster style. But then again this is my opinion and of course we are all entitled to that but on a lighter note, i do really like a few of the reggaeton tunes a lot but not the too heavy gangster style ones with pump action shot gun sound effects.  BEGIN QUOTE  Whatever the minor points are that you are arguing over, my basic premise remains. The original poster claimed that NY style Salsa is only calling itself Salsa to jump on the Salsa bandwagon. The fact is that NY style was the first to popularise the term Salsa for this style of music and dancing and the other forms (like Cuban, Colombian, etc.) are the ones which have actually jumped on the Salsa bandwagon. Now, you can debate minor side issues about who was the first person to actually say the word Salsa in connection with this music, but the core of what I'm saying is accurate and the original poster did have things the wrong way round. dG  END QUOTE  Firstly I'm not arguing over anything and basically New York Salsa better known as Mambo is simply benefiting from the rise of Salsa. If what you say is true why isn't the majority dancing NY Salsa or Mambo or On2 or other name is goes by? ........ I don't think History is a minor side issue, without History we wouldn't know who we are ....... Now I think you are confusing yourself a little, just because Salsa was popularised in NY doesn't mean Mambo is Salsa or vice versa, furthermore it was the music that was popularised as Salsa which again has/had a fusion of many styles so i can't think why you would think that Mambo dancing is Salsa dancing or vice versa, Just accept that its Mambo and promote it for what it is. It's common knowledge that On2, NY dancers and promoters are a little touchy about this topic and can be a little anal and easily wound up, why is that I wonder. Let me just add that i'm not suggesting that you are one of these.

Subject: What is on2
From: Jazzman (O Akman)
Date: 25th Jun 2005, 12:36 pm
Replying to: A message by Sandro posted on 22nd Jun 2005, 10:50 am

BEGIN QUOTE  Maybe I'm wrong but an opinion is like an ass hole, everyone has one.  END QUOTE  And get what ? It also stinks!

Subject: What is on2
From: Jazzman (O Akman)
Date: 25th Jun 2005, 12:39 pm
Replying to: A message by Dave G posted on 22nd Jun 2005, 2:21 pm

BEGIN QUOTE  You've got things the wrong way round here. New York is where Salsa is from and all these other things which call themselves Salsa are the ones jumping on the bandwagon. You are, of course, totally correct that the name was changed from Mambo to Salsa for marketing reasons, but that was 30 years ago and that's when the term Salsa was invented. Since that time when New York invented Salsa, it is the other forms of dance which have appropriated the name (like Son and Cumbia). If any form should have the word Salsa in its name, then it is the New York form and not the other forms!  f the Salsa Scene. So stop calling it New Except it's not Mambo - it's Salsa. The other forms should start using their proper names instead. But it's not opinion that you've got wrong here, it's facts. dG  END QUOTE  You just saved me a whole load of effort in replying.

Subject: What is on2
From: Jazzman (O Akman)
Date: 25th Jun 2005, 12:44 pm
Replying to: A message by salsasauce (Sandro) posted on 22nd Jun 2005, 4:58 pm

BEGIN QUOTE  i got the impression they all preferred to listen and dance to Reggaeton which was a shame.  END QUOTE  Why is that pray tell? Is that like implying we should all be Morris Dancing

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